Showing posts with label Religion. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Religion. Show all posts
Sunday, January 24, 2010
Saya Anak Bangsa Malaysia roadshow- Taking back our country
Yesterday, on the 23rd of January 2010, the Saya Anak Bangsa Malaysia Roadshow came to KL, at the KL Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall.
I came, I saw, I went back Inspired...
and here is a summary of the event, to be completed tomorrow (today is 24th)and the pictures will be loaded in around the 26 when I have access to my own computer.
It has since been completed. Photos Tomorrow
PART 1
!!! There is an alternative to the “official warped version of our Nation’s Independence History”- Sepuloh Tahun Sebelum Merdeka- by Fahmi Reza!
Although I arrived at the screening 20 minutes late, here are my impressions
The message:
1) PUTERA-AMCJA fought for our independence as hard if not harder than our textbook version of UMNO-MCA-MIC coalition (UMMC)
They were more Left-Wing and thus The British picked the UMMC to lead instead.
There was an alternative Constitution for Malaysia and the Malaya’s people rejected the Reid Commission’s version through a nationwide “hartal”. A voluntary stop work protest involving the whole of peninsular Malaya. The Alternative Constitution was ignored by the British. It was better as it was written by the populace, much fairer, and just.
The Left-wing statesmen were silenced when their influence unsettled our colonialists. The silencing was done through the veil that was named “The communist Emergency” where 28000++ people were arrested and dibuang negeri etc for
Being a communist
Colluding with communists
Involved in suspicious activities, communist sympathizers
In which over 10000 of those were Malays. The communist emergency was an excuse to remove these nationalists who were doing too good a job at awaking our sleeping populace about their rights and the colonialist’s wrongs.
2) The Mainstream Media- exactly like what we have today, have bootlicking policies and thus painted a bad picture of PUTERA-AMCJA. The Racist agenda have been subliminally planted by these ppl who claimed
Chinese and Indian immigrants are only here for the ride- to grab what they can and send everything back home to China and India. NONE of them plan to stay so why plan our country’s constitution with them in mind
That these immigrants, being here, stripped the “hujan emas di tanah Melayu” from reaching the Tempayans of the Malays… siphoned it away…
The sowed mistrust, further consolidating the British’ ‘Divide and Rule’ policy. ( this policy ensures the 3 races will never unite, and without unity, the British will continue to rule with impunity)
( The British’s pre-requisite to allow independence was: Only if there was unity of the races—ahhhh, how ironic eh?)
3) Dato Onn’s attempt to Change UMNO (United Malays National Organisation) to United Malayans National Organisation which will enable non-Malays to enter.. did not receive support from the members, and he stepped down. (this was in our history texts, but was not significant when not interpreted in context)
These are some of the messages---
But the take home message: Learn about the True History of our Nation. Not the glossed over –snipped edges one
Comments:
Fahmi Reza is a first time director and his efforts must be commended. The Movie was interesting and the subtitles helped a lot. But the length and myriad of topics covered are not necessarily in chronological order and tends to confuse me. Maybe an edited short 5 minute version may pique the interest of the masses to see the full length version.
PART 2
Human Beings, All born free and Equal
This part of presented by Jahaberdeen Mohd Yunoos and pastor Sivin Kit. (the name intrigues me to no-end and in fact I can’t get the name out of my head! What-the…)
Quotations from the Quran dominated Mr Jaha's presentation and while the content was clear, It did bore me-
I think part of it had to do with my discomfort and disagreement with Islam’s and Christianity’s holy scriptures that state that
- Their creator created earth and all beings on it for Mankind’s use- and we are entitled to use whatever we set our eyes upon, all the natural resources, all the animals are for our consumption. The Creator offered Animals to lead. But they declined, so mankind stepped forward and took charge instead.
Being an Agnostic, I disagree.
First, the concept that earth was ‘created’ is moot. Second, that we are stewards of mother earth and we have responsibility to care for it is not highlighted, instead, we are told to use all that we see.
Where lies prudence? Consideration for our progeny? Sustainability?
The environmentalist in me is considerably irked whenever I hear such statements
“ all flora and fauna are created for men’s use. “
ditto when The Selangor Department of Environment- Puan Che Asmah Ibrahim, gave her Keynote address during the See Green, See Life Environmental Carnival
Therefore I made my exit 10 minutes into the presentation to view the stands outside, only to comeback midway into Sivin Kit’s Presentation. His slide presentation was unique and technologically appealing, (note to self- must learn what programme was he using) but regrettably, I phased out and didn’t quite grasp the message.
Edit 27/1/10 His slides can be found here
After having a full look at his presentation, I find his slides very meaningful and it makes me regret not being there throughout. Thus I have removed my comments from previously
Comments
PART 3
Art Harun: Dispelling myths of the constitution (if does have another title, I think)
First we are enlightened on the principles of a constitution. (written here with my layman understanding of it)
A constitution or Perlembagaan is a document of a country where all laws and ordinance are enacted with the constitution as a blueprint, as a template… A suitable analogy for the scientifically inclined is it is just as how proteins are encoded based on genes imprinted in our DNA
Such a document is not static. It is not set in stone. It is subject to revision, to amendments, to fortifications, to repeals- by parliamental debate and voting. So far around 600 different alterations have been made to our constitution. It is intended to be revised, intended to be so by Lord Reid, by the British, by our Late Tunku
With that In mind, lets come to what Articulations Harun has to bring to the fore
A few Articles of the constitution are laid bare here
1) Article 153 – Special rights of the Malays and the Indigenous people
Where the rights are actually special positions.. to be looked after by the Yang di-Pertuan Agong, who merely acts on the advice of the Prime Minister. So when people claim debating the constitution (as in the Perak Constitutional crisis) is an ACT of TREASON or menderhaka, it is incorrect.
4 points of Article 153 is with regards to
the giving of scholarships
the placement in civil service
the entrance to institutions of learning
the giving of contracts and tenders
one key point to note here that the entrance to institutions of learning only applies to academic placements after MCE. That is, after SPM. So the MRSM system for Secondary school education where only a quota of 10% are given to Non-bumis entrance is contravening the constitution. So, should that be revised?
By questioning the suitability of the articles, we promote debate on whether such an article is still relevant in this day and date.. because the constitution was set up more than half a century ago. And as said before, It is intended to be revised. In fact, the British had in mind to repeal Article 153 fifteen years post independence, where they believed our Malay citizens have reached equal footing with the rest of Malaysians. That is by 1971 or 72, this article should have undergone revision and removed should it be appropriate.
Harun is of the opinion that now, almost 40 years after the intended date of revision, where our Malays have reached economic superiority…… why should the so called tuan Tanah still require protection, why are they thought to require crutches?
2) Article 11 (if not mistaken) Islam as the official Religion of Malaysia
Here, Harun shows that in no way should article 11 be interpreted to mean that Malaysia is not a secular state.
Islam is the official religion Malaysia means: It is the official religion for official ceremonies, for Islamic prayers to start begin during fuctions, for Islamic holidays to be national holidays, and many more interpretations, but all within this understanding.
No where does it say that Malaysia is a Religion based Country with Islamic Laws overseeing Common Law and all its peoples must profess one religion. That would be contravening article 12 (once again if not mistaken) that grants the right of religion to every citizen of Malaysia.
Many other people would be able to explain this better than I can but this is the gist of it.
The confusion arised because our dear Dr M told the Parlimentarians that Malaysia is an Islamic state and many jumped the gun to give fantastic spin to its interpretation.
Previously (and some say they still do) PAS was adamant on making Malaysia an Islamic Nation. As per the constitution it is not possible, but that doesn’t stop people from harping over it.
Comments:
(I’ll be taking off at a tangent here, skip this part if you want to stay on course )
I don’t really see what benefits one can gain, Islamic state or not. Civilian laws are quite adequate to police our peace. Syariah law may put some people off, but I for one, and I speak for myself only, favour Hudud laws. Chop the thief’s hand off and he is very unlikely to steal for the rest of his life.
Yes, yes you may argue its uncivilised, barbaric and such. But laws from western nations are not that perfect. Civilised laws did nothing to prevent school shootings to occur. On the other hand, School Canings and other forms of capital punishment, which our parents were brought up with, served the nation well.
Too many young children of today are much too sheltered and protected in bubble wraps that they grow up indifferent, unapologetic, demanding, materialistic and individualistic, if you ask me
note: I do have double standards. I don’t think Karthika deserve to be whipped. But I really hope snatch thieves can have some of their appendages separated from them. It may not be the answer to the root cause of the issue, but it certainly works as a deterrent.
INTERLUDES
Tea break: Observations
1) The food was tasty! I like the corn pudding very much!
2) A big Thank you to the organizers for choosing a caterer that avoids the use
of polystyrene. The white coffins are in my sights far too often.
3) The crowd didn’t mingle that much- hmmm, make that I didn’t mingle that much-
- I felt out of depth, somewhat shy because everyone seemed to know at least someone else in the crowd, me being an exception. There’s no need to be shy, I know- I’m not that shy actually but somehow I didn’t know how to start a conversation with this crowd. Felt I was too young and knew too little.
Musicians: 5 minute breaks serve to break the monotony; where a busker (street musician) and one of the Voter registrars (Danny) gave a political pop entertainment!
1) the musicians were obscured becaused they didn’t take centre stage. Literally, they were given a spot just at the left side of the hall where they were not very conspicuous.
2) the PA system experienced technical faults on both occasions… the audience were not captured in the first few crucial minutes so many left the hall during this interlude
3)The Drums Session:
I don’t know the name of the coordinator, but I met him once during a Jom Tangani Stress Carnival At Sekolah Menengah Taman Permaisuri passing percussion instruments into young hands and coordinating a fruitful musical session. He is back here today, apt at ‘making noise’ and making that racket tuneful!
This session was fun, somewhat too loud if you’re in the front ten rows, can’t see the performers that well if you’re beyond ten but it made at least 3 quarters of the audience stamp their feet or clap their hands! And just as the organizers intended it to be- it is a wake up session for the attendees! My ears rang for 10 minutes into the next presentation though hehe.
PART 4
Haris Ibrahim from the People’s Parliament
Haris Managed to drive the message home strongly, straight to the heart. I felt my heart sink, and saw an elderly gentleman take off his glasses and ran his arm beneath his brow…
Haris’ Title was Are we a nation in distress?
I say: "The Hell we are."
- We are the world’s laughing stock for so many reasons!
We’re at war over a single word.
We are caning a woman,
We lost two jet engines,
We’re buying decade old train carriages for astronomical prices,
We are now on the way to the international courts for debt on the loan of THE EYE ON MALAYSIA,
We could not accept Chin Peng, but open arms wide and gave almost state burial for the terrorist, Nordin bin Md Top
We’ve slipped off the ladder of transparency international, our ex-PM claims “a few” corrupt politicians have been given the boot by the current PM, but wouldn’t say who are the rest?
- Mat rempits are given offers to journey to the north pole and rehabilitated while our indigenous people are being trampled
- Our education system is going nowhere. We’re still debating on the medium of instruction, flippity-flappity-flap. Our graduates have no motivation nor direction in life.
- Religious harmony wise, after the cephalic bovine incident, we are now dealing with arsons, some idiots are stoking the fire by burning THEIR own place of worship
- The poor are poorer, the rich aren’t that well off, the very rich are moving their businesses overseas.. they claim its just too volatile here
- Our ministers claim that we have eradicated poverty. We have a poverty percentage of 3% country wide. But that’s based on the cut off point of RM760/mth. Jayanath recommended any family of 5 who survives on that paltry sum to be the advisor of our Economic Planning Unit.
Are WE not a nation in distress?
DID WE LET IT HAPPEN?
Haris drove the message that the state of the nation, all its failures, all its institutions’ failures (the police, the executive, the judiciary, the Elections commission, the civil service) are to be borne by us, its citizens.
When A. Kugan Died- with 1805 others in a span of 7 years (averaging at 23 deaths per month under police custody) we pointed fingers at the men in blue.
When Teoh Beng Hock Died we pointed our fingers at MACC
When PKFZ happened we point our fingers at the Public Accounts Committee, and so many others
When corruption occurs we point our fingers at the police, at the bureaucratic red tape, at the greedy officials…
We sought to distance ourselves from these events, saying:
“It’s their fault, not ours.”
“Those greedy pigs, only know how to fill their pockets”
“those ma-ta only want duit kopi and never catch criminals”
But the failure of the system is our failure. Why is it our failure?
It’s our failure to push for change
It’s our failure for not ensuring check and balance occurred
It’s our failure for giving duit kopi when we are arrested, instead of letting the law take its course.
It’s our failure to voice our dissatisfaction, to show that we, the people will take no more shit.
We gave up the chance to show that we the citizens care, we take notice and we will take the matter into our votes; when we did not join the Bersih rally, the Bar council March, The anti-ISA candlelight vigil…
If 200 000 gathered in a peaceful rally- (its enshrined in the constitution as a freedom of expression, provided it is done peacefully)
The authorities would certainly get the message that people are angry, that they can no longer act aloof as though nothing happened, that we are watching, that we will kick them out should they continue.
Here’s my imagination of a typical rally
People come in the hundreds, the FRU and police come with their batons and tear gas,
The people run, or they stand, but in the end they disperse, a few get arrested, maybe one gets charged in court. Should it be done on a weekday, the authorities will say don’t disrupt the economy, people will complain about traffic jams that occurred, Economic losses will exaggerated out of proportion and the PM will say” don’t la go rally, stay at home la and be good citizen”. The Mainstream media downplays the protest of 500 people into “50 ignorant troublemakers”
Now imagine a Ideal Rally.
On a Weekend, with a permit if possible, with a suitably titled agenda
“ We want ISA abolished”, for example
-People gather in the number of two hundred thousand, 200,000.
-(It’s not impossible- KL has the population of 1-2 million)
-All the police and FRUs will be outnumbered, in fact if the whole crowd stamped
their feet at once KL will experience a Richter 3.0 earthquake,
-The Lockups of the whole KL will not be able to fit 1% of the crowd
-The Magistrates will have a headache trying to charge 100 people.
-The Blogs and facebook and the internet will be a flurry of activity and the
mainstream media will be forced to report the truth as the evidence is too much to be
silenced.
In the end, the police and FRU stand and watch, the protesters get their message across. The politicians will be afraid, very afraid that the protestors will translate this action into votes come the next election-----
AND THEY WILL MAKE NECESSARY AMENDMENTS TO THE LAW AND CONSTITUTION.
Should you think this is impossible, Think about the Everyone Connects event at Jalan Bukit Bintang just 2 months ago featuring the hit song ‘Through my Window’, by the group bunkface. Multiply the turnout by a couple of times, and we have a perfect rally.
PART 5: THIS IS MY HOME. I CARE. I WANT TO MAKE IT BETTER
JAYANANTH APPUDURAI
Mr Jaya brought the audience down memory lane into nostalgic café, he told us why he loves this country, and invites everyone to think of their children.
The take home message: “CAN/ DO YOU WANT TO TELL THE CHILDREN OF THE NATION THAT MALAYSIA IS A LOST CAUSE?
Part 6
Question and Answer
The Q&A session to me was very fruitful, and it lasted around an hour, if not for the time, 7.45pm, we could have continued on…. But we overshot the time by a whole hour, skipping the film screening of Gadoh
Everyone felt the roadshow was a success, but everyone chipped in to make it better
A question from the audience took everyone by surprise: “how did you all fund this?”
I guess that part escaped most of our minds …
the answer to that was, funds are only raised through donations and the sales of SABM merchandise- such as the T-shirts and badges.
So someone suggested “let’s get a donation box going!” and most chipped in generously.
Food for thought:
It seemed very appropriate when a member of the audience suggested it, but I’m not quite sure it would have been very nice if the organizers started passing the donation box around from the outset.
Some Questions and Suggestions exchanged
1) The medium of the roadshow should be in Bahasa or English? According to Mr Jaya, the organizers tried using Bahasa in Penang, and it did not work out too well.
I think a healthy mix of both would be fine. Since all screenings are subtitled, they are not a problem. Also, since the whole event is videotaped, SABM can store it in their website archive for people to download, and subtitled inserted where appropriate. That way, the topics discussed in coming roadshows can by dynamic and continuously evolving, since the public can refer to previous topics online, or through CDs.
alternatively, when the public registers for the roadshow, probably the organizers can ask them to include the preferred language medium- and they can adjust the presentation accordingly, at different localities.
2) The time- someone felt the whole roadshow was too long. It should be more concise, and to the point.
I THINK- each topic attracts different people - the length may be maintained, but have a thorough overview of each topic/ event of presentation and let the audience decide which particular event attracts them, and they can come for that.
That said, The Q&A session should be right after each presentation, with a review at the end of the day. Lumping it all at the end of the roadshow risks the presenter being not around, or the audience that sat for that event has already left.
Probably SABM can have a FAQ section on understanding MALAYSIA on their website too.
Having the recordings also solve part of the problem.
3) Another interesting question was: Can the Voter’s vote be tracked by the SPR?
The answer – IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. Haris himself found a polling officer scribbling something down when he was registering to vote, he confronted him and the guy tried to downplay it. Haris remained firm and said- “if its nothing, erase it now “
I THINK – many Aunties and Uncles fear for their safety, and Ricebowls. They are not assured that their votes are not tracked, and they do not know the consequence should it occur. I guess, “it should not happen” is not a good enough answer for many, as their concerns lie with “what if it does”. I don’t know the answer- and I’ll let the organizers answer this.
4) It appears this roadshow only appeals to the educated professionals, how can the roadshow appeal to kampong-folk, and would they be interested?
The panellists’ answer
- kampong folk may be more enlightened and brave compared to urban folk, and
Haris cited a very humorous example!
- They are going for roadshows all over the country, the next one- February 6 in Ipoh
- the public can help by urging their relatives, friends and colleagues to attend the
roadshows slated to happen in other parts of the country.
- if there is a kenduri/ wedding somewhere in Sekinchan/ Sungai Petani- try to gather round the community over there and do ask the organizers to make an appearance.. they will definitely try to make it there
- The audience can pass what they learned from the roadshow to their friends, and the campaign to “balik kampong bawa berita” must go on to enlighten the masses who have been brainwashed by the mainstream media. SABM and the bloggers will be coming up with printable articles that the public can bring home during festive seasons- this coming CNY is a good opportunity. Let the atuks and neneks read the articles from the MSM and the alternative source and make their own comparison.
I THINK- THIS IS GREAT! I have nothing to add :-)
5) “How to appeal to the masses.” “All the talk is great- but not all can relate the problem to their rice bowl and thus not many are keen to act”. -Others don’t know how to act.
The proposed solution offered by members of the floor - Make the presentation more related to the public’s everyday life- make the examples heartfelt, “it could happen to you”, relatable
For SABM to list down the 10 things for people to do- easy simple things that can help spread the message.
I THINK-
- 10 tahun sebelum merdeka did a good job of comparing the effect of the People’s Constitution in comparison with our current Constitution
- Interfaith Dialogues to follow up on the discussion on religion
- Art Harun’s discourse of the Constitution’s articles- how does it relate to our current issues.. why should we be concerned, what are SABM’s following up action- proposing an amendment to the constitution? This is a good time to garner support
- Haris Ibrahim told us that by supporting the rallies we are making a difference. Many Chinese (I feel ashamed for my brethren) are not willing to put their necks out on the chopping board, they try to avoid trouble… how to change this mentality? Is there any other way for the public to show their support for a cause… something more concrete than a petition but less ‘risky’ than a demonstration?
- Mr Jayanath- try to beef up the presentation so that many Malaysians feel the warmth of the country, that patriotism isn’t that demanding, that we can make things happen—give examples of things that we MADE HAPPEN, so that people are inspired. Once again- the Chinese have the tendency to abandon ship when there’s any signs of failure… utterly ashamed of this: How do I convince them that we are not a lost cause?
- Q&A: before the start of the Q&A: the Mc can probably recap the questions from previous roadshows, so the audience would be aware of overlap.
6) This will be my section on the whole event, probably some repeats what I have mentioned above, briefly
The Good:
The event was a success! My estimated audience turnout was aroud 300 people
The panellists were good! The content was good! We learnt a lot
The Bad
The hall arena was air-conditioned, but just behind it, some members of the audience and some of the organizers smoked… that wasn’t very nice. My dad was wondering whether I have a newfound habit when he caught a whiff
How to make it better:
- More details on the content of the speakers, to interest the public
- Topics should have clear goals and objectives,
- Q&A should be after each event, with a concluding Q&A session at the end
- Based on this Q&A- an FAQ section can be posted on the SABM website, thus avoiding repeats
- The screen at the Chinese assembly hall was small, but most likely it couldn’t be helped.
- Depending on the location and venue- ushers may be needed to fill up the blank space
- The anti-ISA booth and voter registration booth was in a cramped position, also I don’t think the organizers had a choice
- Attendees really shouldn’t smoke in a non-smoking area
- To encourage people to vote- cite concrete examples on how important each individual vote is. Have simple calculations of “what could have been” in so many states? Let the voters do the math and know what influence and power they could have. I’m only one person- why should I matter is a mentality that must be tackled with in so many different issues- Global Warming, Recycling, Voting, Rukun Tetangga, Gotong-royong… Let everyone come up with suggestions on how to address this.
Finally I want to congratulate the organizers for doing such a great job!!
Thank you guys for giving your time, money and energy for such a noble cause.
It will not be thankless, and we will help see the effort through~
Because of you, MALAYSIA IS NOT A LOST CAUSE.
P.s- Let us all help to promote the subsequent roadshows!
Labels:
malaysia,
Musings,
politics,
racial harmony,
Religion
Wednesday, September 17, 2008
Proselytizers deserve to be
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"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in something for which there is no evidence. Where there is evidence, no one speaks of "faith." We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence. The substitution of emotion for evidence is apt to lead to strife, since different groups, substitute different emotions."
— Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)
Now no matter what you of a certain religion think, those of us not following, I repeat NOT FOLLOWING your line of thought shall not burn in whatever place you designate us to be(which is so funny). Therefore there is no need for you to bring us "on to the right path". That is an extremely bigoted thought and no one will thank you for that.
"People who want to share their religious views with you almost never want you to share yours with them."
— Dave Barry
I hope you take note of these few things.
1.You know how many religions there are? Last count, there are over 25 of them. How many have you tried to understand? How many of them the names of which you even know of? You only have the right to preach to me about yours being the "right" or "true" religion once you understand and opened your mind to others.
Your version of heaven and hell may not apply to the rest of your co-inhabitants of earth. Imagine that if I will burn in "your" hell if I don't follow your religion. Well, you will very well burn in "my hell" if you don't follow mine. Get it? By this rule there will be more flames to go around than a arsonist's heaven on earth!
"The God of hell should be held in loathing, contempt and scorn. A god who threatens eternal pain should be hated, not loved; cursed, not worshipped. A heaven presided over by such a god must be below the meanest hell."
— Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1899)
2. You know a certain book used to state within that: the sun revolves around the earth? That was the accepted "gospel" truth and people who believed otherwise are branded witches etc. and hanged. Well what do you know? Galileo Galilei and Copernicus did the whole human civilisation a favour by exposing this faux pas of the millenium. Since then the content of the aforementioned book has changed to accomodate the new discovery. Who knows how many "editions" to the book has been done?
Bart D. Ehrman is an American New Testament scholar and textual critic of early Christianity. He is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor and Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He has researched the source materials for the Bible. His research proposes that the Biblical text was unintentionally altered by scribes and intentionally altered for a variety of reasons.
A second major theme that runs through his more recent works is the analysis of why such biblical variations are there. The vast majority of the literally hundreds of thousands of differences are due to the unintentional mistakes of scribes.[8] These variations have little to no effect on the meaning of the passages or core tenets of Christian dogma. Changes were made, however, that Ehrman believes with near certainty could not have been mistakes, but were in fact purposeful alterations by the early church fathers and theologians to mold the early Christian writings into what they felt they needed to support their agenda and/or interpretation of Christianity.
Two key examples will be given here to illustrate the critical nature of the variations. Two of the most striking additions that could not possibly be attributed to unintentional scribal error occur in the last 12 verses of the Gospel of Mark and in 1 John.
In the Gospel of Mark, Ehrman claims that the last 12 verses have been added on to the original text many years later.[8] Unlike some other scribal errors that had little bearing on the major tenets of Christian dogma, this addition to the text has had vast ramifications. In Mark, Jesus' reappearance to his disciples is mentioned only in the 12 verses that were added to the original. Ehrman indicates that when one considers that the Gospel of Mark is generally regarded to be the earliest of the three synoptic gospels, and most likely one of the primary sources for the Gospels of both Matthew and Luke, it becomes apparent that the addition of these 12 verses could have had a monumental effect.
In 1 John, where we find a well known Biblical reference to the doctrine of the Trinity, Ehrman notes that this section appears in no Greek manuscript before the 9th century.[8]-Bart D. Ehrman
3. Praying of inaminate objects= praying to the devil? Well the devil hides in the candles, the chandeliers and the many statues you have within your halls. HarHar. Last time I checked the entity has an inclination to inhabit things in the shape of the letter X... which when turned ....
4. As how civilised or advanced a society is judged by the way it treats its animals;
How good or benevolent a religion is can be judged by how its "apostates" (for the lack of a better term) are treated. Well, now there's homework for you!
"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."(Deuteronomy 13:6-9)
"And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, ...and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."(Deuteronomy 17:3-5)
Catharism was a name given to a radical Christian religious sect with dualistic and gnostic elements that appeared in the Languedoc region of France in the 11th century and flourished in the 12th and 13th centuries. The Catholic Church regarded the sect as dangerously heretical and in 1208 C.E., the Pope unleashed a crusade known as the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars. In the ensuing 20-year military campaign, thousands of apostates were executed including 7000 residents of a town called Beziers, who were locked and burnt in a church. According to historians, a horrified onlooker rushed to the papal gates and reminded the crusaders that the some Christians were still trapped in the church together with the Cathars. The officer overseeing the massacre then made a remark that has resounded through the centuries: “Kill them all. God will know his own”[7]
Indeed. All religions should be benevolent. If death is the threat from renouncement of religion, wouldn't it be akin to embracing the "devil"? where to leave is to die?
In Islam, apostasy is called "ridda" ("turning back") and is considered to be a profound insult to God. A person born of Muslim parents that rejects Islam is called a "murtad fitri" (natural apostate), and a person that converted to Islam and later rejects the religion is called a "murtad milli" (apostate from the community).[citation needed]
According to most scholars, if a Muslim consciously and without coercion declares their rejection of Islam and does not change their mind after the time given to him/her by a judge for research, then the penalty for male apostates is death, and for women, life imprisonment. Today apostasy is punishable by death in the countries of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Sudan, Afghanistan, Mauritania and the Comoros
Kill whoever changes his religion. Sahih Bukhari 9:84:57
In 2006, Abdul Rahman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rahman_(convert) the Afghan convert from Islam to Christianity has attracted worldwide attention about where Islam stood on religious freedom. Prosecutors asked for the death penalty for him. However, under heavy pressure from foreign governments, the Afghan government claimed he was mentally unfit to stand trial and released him.
"The so-called ******** nations are the most enlightened and progressive ... but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Chu*** has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before ****** religion was born."
— Mark Twain
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posted by someone who has been harangued mercilessly over and over her choice of religion.
...... Hmmmm.... things to ponder upon... don't you think?
Still I believe the problems we have in regards to religion are because of the people practising it, not the inherent nature by itself, as religion, can be a tool, and is manipulated by many... think of the many wars that are fought, think how it was used as a tool of oppression by flipping through the pages of history, and you will understand.
I anticipate flak towards this post. But keep your mind open, do not hide into your shell when your faith is being questioned, think logically. For this is how we, the general population feel when you question our faith and practices.
Atheist n. A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others."
— Chaz Bufe
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"We may define "faith" as the firm belief in something for which there is no evidence. Where there is evidence, no one speaks of "faith." We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence. The substitution of emotion for evidence is apt to lead to strife, since different groups, substitute different emotions."
— Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)
Now no matter what you of a certain religion think, those of us not following, I repeat NOT FOLLOWING your line of thought shall not burn in whatever place you designate us to be(which is so funny). Therefore there is no need for you to bring us "on to the right path". That is an extremely bigoted thought and no one will thank you for that.
"People who want to share their religious views with you almost never want you to share yours with them."
— Dave Barry
I hope you take note of these few things.
1.You know how many religions there are? Last count, there are over 25 of them. How many have you tried to understand? How many of them the names of which you even know of? You only have the right to preach to me about yours being the "right" or "true" religion once you understand and opened your mind to others.
Your version of heaven and hell may not apply to the rest of your co-inhabitants of earth. Imagine that if I will burn in "your" hell if I don't follow your religion. Well, you will very well burn in "my hell" if you don't follow mine. Get it? By this rule there will be more flames to go around than a arsonist's heaven on earth!
"The God of hell should be held in loathing, contempt and scorn. A god who threatens eternal pain should be hated, not loved; cursed, not worshipped. A heaven presided over by such a god must be below the meanest hell."
— Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1899)
2. You know a certain book used to state within that: the sun revolves around the earth? That was the accepted "gospel" truth and people who believed otherwise are branded witches etc. and hanged. Well what do you know? Galileo Galilei and Copernicus did the whole human civilisation a favour by exposing this faux pas of the millenium. Since then the content of the aforementioned book has changed to accomodate the new discovery. Who knows how many "editions" to the book has been done?
Bart D. Ehrman is an American New Testament scholar and textual critic of early Christianity. He is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor and Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He has researched the source materials for the Bible. His research proposes that the Biblical text was unintentionally altered by scribes and intentionally altered for a variety of reasons.
A second major theme that runs through his more recent works is the analysis of why such biblical variations are there. The vast majority of the literally hundreds of thousands of differences are due to the unintentional mistakes of scribes.[8] These variations have little to no effect on the meaning of the passages or core tenets of Christian dogma. Changes were made, however, that Ehrman believes with near certainty could not have been mistakes, but were in fact purposeful alterations by the early church fathers and theologians to mold the early Christian writings into what they felt they needed to support their agenda and/or interpretation of Christianity.
Two key examples will be given here to illustrate the critical nature of the variations. Two of the most striking additions that could not possibly be attributed to unintentional scribal error occur in the last 12 verses of the Gospel of Mark and in 1 John.
In the Gospel of Mark, Ehrman claims that the last 12 verses have been added on to the original text many years later.[8] Unlike some other scribal errors that had little bearing on the major tenets of Christian dogma, this addition to the text has had vast ramifications. In Mark, Jesus' reappearance to his disciples is mentioned only in the 12 verses that were added to the original. Ehrman indicates that when one considers that the Gospel of Mark is generally regarded to be the earliest of the three synoptic gospels, and most likely one of the primary sources for the Gospels of both Matthew and Luke, it becomes apparent that the addition of these 12 verses could have had a monumental effect.
In 1 John, where we find a well known Biblical reference to the doctrine of the Trinity, Ehrman notes that this section appears in no Greek manuscript before the 9th century.[8]-Bart D. Ehrman
3. Praying of inaminate objects= praying to the devil? Well the devil hides in the candles, the chandeliers and the many statues you have within your halls. HarHar. Last time I checked the entity has an inclination to inhabit things in the shape of the letter X... which when turned ....
4. As how civilised or advanced a society is judged by the way it treats its animals;
How good or benevolent a religion is can be judged by how its "apostates" (for the lack of a better term) are treated. Well, now there's homework for you!
"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."(Deuteronomy 13:6-9)
"And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, ...and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."(Deuteronomy 17:3-5)
Catharism was a name given to a radical Christian religious sect with dualistic and gnostic elements that appeared in the Languedoc region of France in the 11th century and flourished in the 12th and 13th centuries. The Catholic Church regarded the sect as dangerously heretical and in 1208 C.E., the Pope unleashed a crusade known as the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars. In the ensuing 20-year military campaign, thousands of apostates were executed including 7000 residents of a town called Beziers, who were locked and burnt in a church. According to historians, a horrified onlooker rushed to the papal gates and reminded the crusaders that the some Christians were still trapped in the church together with the Cathars. The officer overseeing the massacre then made a remark that has resounded through the centuries: “Kill them all. God will know his own”[7]
Indeed. All religions should be benevolent. If death is the threat from renouncement of religion, wouldn't it be akin to embracing the "devil"? where to leave is to die?
In Islam, apostasy is called "ridda" ("turning back") and is considered to be a profound insult to God. A person born of Muslim parents that rejects Islam is called a "murtad fitri" (natural apostate), and a person that converted to Islam and later rejects the religion is called a "murtad milli" (apostate from the community).[citation needed]
According to most scholars, if a Muslim consciously and without coercion declares their rejection of Islam and does not change their mind after the time given to him/her by a judge for research, then the penalty for male apostates is death, and for women, life imprisonment. Today apostasy is punishable by death in the countries of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Sudan, Afghanistan, Mauritania and the Comoros
Kill whoever changes his religion. Sahih Bukhari 9:84:57
In 2006, Abdul Rahman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rahman_(convert) the Afghan convert from Islam to Christianity has attracted worldwide attention about where Islam stood on religious freedom. Prosecutors asked for the death penalty for him. However, under heavy pressure from foreign governments, the Afghan government claimed he was mentally unfit to stand trial and released him.
"The so-called ******** nations are the most enlightened and progressive ... but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Chu*** has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before ****** religion was born."
— Mark Twain
----------------------- end of excerpt ----------------------------
posted by someone who has been harangued mercilessly over and over her choice of religion.
...... Hmmmm.... things to ponder upon... don't you think?
Still I believe the problems we have in regards to religion are because of the people practising it, not the inherent nature by itself, as religion, can be a tool, and is manipulated by many... think of the many wars that are fought, think how it was used as a tool of oppression by flipping through the pages of history, and you will understand.
I anticipate flak towards this post. But keep your mind open, do not hide into your shell when your faith is being questioned, think logically. For this is how we, the general population feel when you question our faith and practices.
Atheist n. A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others."
— Chaz Bufe
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